How To Create An Award-Winning Contact Centre With Servant Leadership
With Emma Riordan, Customer Care Manager at Econowaste
Show Notes
Emma Riordan is the Customer Care Manager at Econowaste.
Prior to her current role, she was with Skinny, as the Head of Skinny Care. In her time there, the contact centre won numerous awards.
Today, she shares how to create an award-winning contact centre with servant leadership, based on her 23 years in the industry.
Emma’s Top 3 Tips:
Do real life. It’s essential to enable your people to manage their work-life balance. You’ll end up with agents who are more motivated, and have better conversations with customers (07:36).
Truly listen to what your people say, and treat it like a gift. Even though it’s not always a gift you want (14:45).
Make sure your people feel valued, and that their future is with you - even if it’s only an emotional attachment to your organisation (16:19).
You'll Learn:
The 3 standout experiences which formed Emma’s approach to leadership; one terrible, two great (01:33).
The ‘family first’ approach of one of Emma’s past managers, that helped get the best from her team (04:03).
The 2 critical parts of servant leadership which enable your people to do their best (05:22).
The small things which make a world of difference for your agents (08:30).
How winning awards at Skinny was never the focus, but the by-product of putting their people first (09:52).
The wider relationships it’s essential to have within your organisation, so you’re always the first to know what’s going on, and ensure your people are kept front-and-centre of what other departments are doing (12:49).
Connect with Emma on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/emmalrio
Transcript
Blair Stevenson (00:00)
Welcome to the Secrets to Contact Center Success podcast, connecting you with the latest and greatest tips from the best and the brightest minds in the industry.
I am Blair Stevenson, founder of BravaTrak. Our Performance Break-Thru system enables contact centres to crush their operational efficiency goals, guaranteed.
Today I'm joined by Emma Riordan, who's the Customer Care Manager at Econowaste. Prior to her current role, Emma was with Skinny, where she was the Operations Lead and then Head of Skinny Care. And I'm talking today with Emma about servant leadership.
Emma, welcome along. Great to have you here.
Emma Riordan (00:35)
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Blair Stevenson (00:37)
It's a pleasure. Just as a bit of background, tell us a bit about yourself and your expertise.
Emma Riordan (00:42)
I have been in contact centres for over 20 years now. Fell into contact centres completely by accident when after a year at university I decided it wasn't really for me. I hadn't been there very long and realised that I'd found my place, and subsequently have worked through pretty much every role that a contact centre - a traditional contact centre - has to offer, both in the UK and in New Zealand.
And here I am, 22 years later, still in entrenched, still absolutely loving it, and super passionate about people and the things that we can achieve.
Blair Stevenson (01:17)
Fantastic. You mentioned you've been in the contact centre industry a long time, since about 1998. I'm just curious about some of the early experiences that you had, which formed your approach to leadership in the contact centre space.
Emma Riordan (01:33)
I think there's two very clear standouts from the early days that have carried me through. The first being, having some leaders that emulated exactly what you don't want to be, and showed you how you don't really get the best out of people, or how you can take a really amazing human and make them feel really rubbish about themselves.
I remember one particular leader who used to start our shift every morning shouting out the time, and why weren't we logged on. And that could be 10 seconds after nine. And that's stuck with me for such a long time.
And on the flip side, then having those amazing leaders who just make you feel incredible, who let you know that you're doing an awesome job and that really put you in a position to succeed.
Blair Stevenson (02:31)
I'm just curious about those amazing leaders that you mentioned. What are some of the things that you learned from those people?
Emma Riordan (02:38)
I think quite early in my career, I had a secondment off up to Scotland to help set up a new contact centre, and the leader that I had there was really my first exposure to what I believe is a servant leader. In that June fully and completely dedicated herself to making sure that everybody in her team had the tools that they needed to do their job.
And it was the first time I'd really experienced that, but I was young, early twenties, but it was profound. It was really profound. And I saw not only what that did for me, but what that did for the people around me. It was incredibly significant and I hold that very close to my heart in my journey to leadership so far.
The next real big standout for me was when I worked for North Shore City Council and I worked for Anne, and Anne's family first approach. I'd never seen that to that level before, and how flexible she was with people who had commitments outside of work, which meant that a traditional Monday to Friday nine to five didn't necessarily work for them.
And the little things that she did around school holidays, animals, parental commitments, all those sorts of things. How that just maximised the input that you got from your team.
Blair Stevenson (03:59)
Nice. So what are some of the little things that she did around family first?
Emma Riordan (04:03)
Just from the outset, letting you know that it's okay. It's okay to put your family first. It's okay to allow your people to put their family first.
One mum in particular, throughout the course of the year, worked a little bit extra every day so that she could take the school holidays off and still be paid - a single mum. That was phenomenal, and 13 years ago that kind of flexibility wasn't as prolific as it is now. It's very current, very relevant, in 2021. But in 2007, 2008, that wasn't really something that we were all doing, or that we were all motivated to do.
And so when I saw that, it was a moment in time that you remember because of what that enables people to do. It enables people to do the most important job in their life, which is to be a parent - or to try and be a good parent. And then also to do the things that we all need to do, which is to work and to put food on the table and pay your bills.
And it was, again, another really profound moment for me.
Blair Stevenson (05:13)
Cool. You mentioned servant leadership earlier, and I know that you're an advocate for that. So what do you mean by that term, servant leadership?
Emma Riordan (05:22)
So for me, ultimately, servant leadership is very much how you get the most out of people around you. And I very much leverage from enabling people to do their best. And so for me, servant leadership is about not expecting people to serve you, but the other way around.
So my job is to make sure that people have got all the tools that they need to do their jobs effectively. Whether or not that is physical tools, whether it's technological tools, whether it's psychological tools, whether it's just making sure that they know that it's okay to bring their whole selves to work every day, whether or not that means that you have to take a different approach to things for each individual.
That means that you have to really look at yourself, and look at the way that you expect people to do things, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the right way. And so be led by your team in that respect.
Listen. Servant leadership is nothing if you haven't got the ability to listen, and to be driven to succeed through the things that your team was telling you that they need. Frontline teams are phenomenally valuable, and I think that the listening part of that, and giving people the tools that they need to do their job, just unquestionably gets the best out of people. It means that your customers are so well looked after.
Blair Stevenson (06:58)
I absolutely agree. Practically speaking, what are some examples of translating that concept of servant leadership into practicality? What would be one or two examples to illustrate that?
Emma Riordan (07:10)
Sometimes in a contact centre, flexibility feels like it's hard. Especially if you're in a very metric driven organisation. Or even if you're not, even if you're in a very small, tight knit, compact team, the thought of being completely flexible and ebbing and flowing and adapting to what people need, it can make you apprehensive.
But I think the reality is - and very much one of my philosophies - is to do real life. So if you have got a person who wants to go to the gym every day in the middle of the day for two hours, but that person is prepared to start early and finish late and cover two of the times of day that are potentially quite busy for you, or people that want to work those shifts, then there's absolutely no reason not to do it.
Because what you are doing is you are enabling them to do their job well, but you're also enabling them to manage their work-life balance well, and do something that really motivates them, keeps them physically and mentally well. And overall, it's just a better story. It's a better story for your life, if you're able to do your job well, and do the things that are important to you well at the same time. So that's the first thing.
The second thing is to keep things as simple and straightforward as you can. Don't over-complicate things, and make sure that anything you can do to make life easier for the people who are speaking to your customers - whether that's virtually, physically, over the phones - do what you can to make it easy for them.
That can be tiny things from the way that you manage the workflow, to the technology that they've got, the headsets that they've got. If they need to get up and walk around, get them a wireless headset, it's a good investment. lots of really, really little things.
Again, they all have to be driven by listening. Listening to what people want and what they need. Understanding that you might not always be able to do it, but that if someone is comfortable enough to tell you, you must value that and listen, and do what you can with that information to make life straightforward and easy. And so that the focus is always on the right thing, which is your customers and your journeys.
Blair Stevenson (09:32)
So a couple of things out of there for me, one is kind of sounds like what you're seeking - as much as you can - is a win-win, as opposed to a win-lose.
Emma Riordan (09:42)
Unquestionably.
Blair Stevenson (09:43)
While you were with Skinny, you won numerous awards - your contact centre won numerous awards. I'm just was curious about what you put that down to?
Emma Riordan (09:52)
I think there are lots of factors at play in the winning of those awards, both from when I very first started until the end of my five-year period with Skinny.
Ultimately, we did not set out to win those awards. They weren't an end goal. They were a by-product of really, really, without a doubt, putting our people first, always. And that changed in the five years that I was there. We were in a really good place when I started and the awards had started to roll in then, and they kept on going.
But I think that it just came down to almost a - and you and I have spoken about this before - but almost a 'customer comes second' philosophy. And there are lots of theories about that out there now. We know that Richard Branson, for example, has spoken about it for years.
But if you look after your people, and they know how valuable they are, and they're motivated and they're driven, and they know that there's clear progression paths for them - if they want it, that they're not pressured into that if they don't want to - that they can come to work, they can be real, they can be who they are, they can express what's important to them, then they are going to take care of their customers every time. Like they are the most important thing in their life at that point in time.
And that's what I strive for. I strive for putting someone in a position whereby there are no other factors that take away from their ability to do their job and to do the job really well.
And over the course of a day, a week, a month, a year, by putting somebody in that position, you make it super easy for them to do a good job. You make it light. You make it easy. Even when we all know that in contact centres, most people contact us because of something wrong.
But if you are in a position to tackle that without a whole heap of busy-ness and mess going on in the background, you're going to do a good job and it's going to be straightforward, and you're going to be able to have really great conversations with customers, who can walk away from their interaction with you, knowing that you've done what they need you to do.
And possibly more, which again, even better scenario. And also, maybe, even that they never need to contact you again, which again, ticks all the boxes in terms of minimal interaction. And it only really happening when you need it to happen.
So the awards, we went through a period of time where they came in thick and fast, and it's just a really good acknowledgement of the fact that that works. That that philosophy, the way that we chose to put people first, the relationships that we built with the other teams within the organisation to ensure that they understood how important our team were, and still are, and that they kept them front and centre whenever they did anything as well.
And I think that's probably one thing that everybody needs to constantly work out, is your relationship with marketing, finance, the people that are doing your system development. Whatever it looks like in your organization, if all of those teams can see the value in your contact centres and your customer facing teams, and even if can progress some of your people into those teams, then it means that you've closed the loop really, really beautifully.
And that you are never the last to know what's going on. You're always the first to know, because you've been involved in that decision making process, because those teams understand how important you are, and how much value you bring when they're making decisions about the customer base.
All of those things add up to a really beautiful picture of a happy team and happy customers. And when you've got those two things, your commercials essentially look after themselves with a little bit of work in the background.
Blair Stevenson (13:46)
Makes perfect sense. And it's ironic that by putting the customer second, actually you end up doing a better job. So as a quick wrap up, what are your top three tips for contact centre leaders who are looking to get the best out of their people?
Emma Riordan (14:05)
Top three tips. That's a really good question.
Tip #1 (14:07)
First one, without a doubt - I bang on about it a lot, it's super important - but it's 'do real life'. You must do real life. You must enable your teams to do real life and you must be real yourself. Be authentic, be vulnerable, be honest, have empathy. Just be you, be the best possible version of you that you can be, and enable everyone who works with you to do the same.
Without a doubt, for me, that's the most important thing. Real life all the way.
Tip #2 (14:45)
The second thing, and I spoke about earlier, listen, really, listen. Listen, and treat that information that whether that's feedback, suggestions, stories, listen, treat it like a gift and make the most of what you can with that information.
Blair Stevenson (15:08)
That's a great way to frame it, actually. In terms of thinking of it as a gift.
Emma Riordan (15:13)
It is a gift. Without a doubt. And sometimes it's not always a gift that you want. You've got to process it. And sometimes it can make you sit back in your chair saying, "Okay, right. What am I going to do with that?" But you must do something.
Blair Stevenson (15:28)
Because the reality is, whatever their feedback is, they are thinking about that it. And so if you know about it, then you can make some decisions about what to do.
Emma Riordan (15:40)
Absolutely right. And sometimes you take it, you think about it, you process it, you look at your big picture, and there's nothing that you can do with it.
But in that respect, then you must tell your people, or whoever it is that shared that valuable gift with you, that "This is where we're at. This is what I think about it. This is what I would like to do with it short-term, long-term, or this is what I can or can't do with it short-term, long-term". But that you value the fact that they took the time to share that with you and that it hasn't gone away. Even if it's something that you can't do anything with today.
So that would be my first two.
Tip #3 (16:19)
And then the third thing I think is - it probably links into both of the previous two - and again, I mentioned it earlier, it's that whole progression piece, and making sure that people feel valued and that their future is with you. And their future being with you doesn't necessarily mean that their future is with your organisation. If it is, that's phenomenal. If it isn't, that's great too.
Everyone should be able to stay if they want to stay, or move on if they want to move on, knowing that their journey to get them to that point has been without a doubt, supported, encouraged. They've had people around them to motivate them, to leverage them, to give them that good energy that they need to be able to focus on themselves.
So if that means that they stay with your organisation and they grow and they go on an incredible career path, that's beautiful. And we love that. And the IP (Intellectual Property) that comes with that and the emotional attachment to your brand, that's super, super valuable. Huge, huge.
But also, if someone takes any other path, and they walk out of the door, that they leave, again, still with that emotional attachment to your brand and your organisation. Because you've helped them to get to where they want to be. They're going to walk out, walk into another organisation and speak really positively about you as a person, about your brand, about the organisation that they came from.
So that's again, a really, really good news story. But also means that in five years time, you've got an incredible opening. That person might come back, and even if they don't come back, and there is never that opening, you might bump into that person 10 years later on the street.
And they might say to you, "You know what? I remember that conversation we had that time, Emma, and it really, really made a difference to my life". Or "It really made me stop and think", or - and a scenario that I've had - "The best thing you could have ever done is say to me, 'Are you really sure this is what you want'".
Because again, being honest means that you can help people to get to where they need to be. And I think that it's okay to know that they might stay or they might go like. It's really valuable to ensure that you can just help someone to go on whatever their journey looks like.
Blair Stevenson (18:48)
Yeah. That's interesting because in the leadership surveys we've done for clients over the years, one of the things that really stands out is that development is highly sought after. And is actually quite a significant driver of employee engagement.
People want that development, they want that guidance. Whether it's developing within the organisation or helping people grow so that they can then move on.
Great tips. Thank you very much.
For listeners, you'll find the link to the show notes in the episode description below.
And if you'd like to connect with Emma on LinkedIn, you'll find a link to her LinkedIn profile in those show notes as well (www.linkedin.com/in/emmalrio).
And, if you'd like to follow me on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevensonblair/) or connect with me on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/blair.stevenson.980), you'll find links to my profile there too.
Well, that's it from us today. Have a productive week.
Emma Riordan (19:35)
Thanks Blair.