Discover the 4 Key Pillars of a Successful Customer Experience Strategy
With Gerry Brown, The Customer Lifeguard, saving the world from bad customer service
Show Notes
Gerry Brown is The Customer Lifeguard, saving the world from bad customer service.
He has over 40 years’ experience in the contact centre industry, and helps businesses save customers at risk and breathe life into their customer service operations and customer experience strategy.
Today, he shares the 4 key pillars of a successful customer experience strategy.
The 4 pillars which make world-leading companies great (04:51)
Culture
Communication
Commitment
Community
You'll Learn:
The relationship between employee experience and customer experience (08:19).
Solutions to the company culture challenges created by work-from-home, based on what Gerry is hearing from senior leaders (13:14).
Why cross-functional collaboration is essential to your organisation’s success, and the proven (yet simple) approach Gerry recommends clients use (18:38).
The very first thing to do when it comes to improving employee experience and customer experience (26:37).
Gerry’s 3 tips when it comes to enhancing organisational engagement, in order to improve customer experience (29:54).
Connect with Gerry on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerryhbrown/
Transcript
Blair Stevenson (00:00)
Welcome to the Secrets to Contact Centre Success podcast, connecting you with the latest and greatest tips from the best and the brightest minds in the industry.
I am Blair Stevenson, founder of BravaTrak. Our Sales Leadership System enables contact centres to increase revenue and achieve their sales growth targets.
Today I'm fortunate enough to be joined by Gerry Brown, who is passionate about helping businesses breathe new life into their customer service operations and their customer experience strategy. Based in the UK, his company is The Customer Lifeguard.
So Gerry, welcome along. Great to have you here.
Gerry Brown (00:38)
Great to be here, Blair, and, I'm enjoying a nice - for a change - sunny day here in the UK. So my mood is even better.
Blair Stevenson (00:45)
Awesome. I'm pleased to hear. Just as a starting point, tell us a bit about your background and your expertise.
Gerry Brown (00:52)
As people can see, I didn't just start this last week. So I've been involved in one way or the other with customers, with communications, and connecting the two of them for quite some time.
I worked for Bell Canada for many years in the very early days of what was called telemarketing, when it wasn't a dirty word. And I helped lots of organisations develop telemarketing programs where we helped train people.
Because in Canada, as in many parts of the US, and to a greater extent in other parts of the world - where you have big countries and it's not easy to get around - and certainly in those days, using the phone to communicate, to create opportunities, to follow up on sales, et cetera, was very popular.
(01:41)
The phone companies decided they wanted to make it easier for people to do that, so they reduced rates. So there was a great incentive to do that. So I got very involved in that part of it, and then became very interested in a lot of the technology that was beginning to develop.
Bear in mind, this was very early days, before the internet, only a few people had computers, but I saw there was an opportunity to help people basically keep track of all of this stuff much better. And this is when we got into some of the first, what was then called contact management systems, which then became CRM.
So I was fortunate to get involved in one of those organisations in the US and I got very interested in the technology behind it. Moved on a few years, and ultimately joined a company called Genesys, which is still one of the leading contact centre software platforms, that was still in their early days in the late nineties.
(02:39)
And then I had an opportunity to come to the UK to run their channel operation. So I came to the UK in 1998 and basically worked there for a number of years, worked with a lot of the larger organisations, and began to understand what was necessary to deliver this great customer service - before was even called customer experience - using technology.
But I got to a point and I thought, "Well, we can't live by technology alone. There's lots of other things that we have to look at." And I left Genesys in 2004, basically to start out on my own with my own ideas. And even then, customer experience as a term wasn't really one we were hearing a lot about.
(03:30)
So I began to build my proposition around combining all of these things. And that's what I've been doing ever since, is looking at the strategic opportunities offered by delivering great customer experience. And then how do we link that up with the other parts of the equation. What I call the Holy Trinity, of people, process and technology.
That's not new, I understand many people have been doing that, but what I find is that there's not as many people doing all three of those, going to an organisation saying, "Well, let's have a look at all of these things. How do we bring it together?"
So that's what I spend a lot of my time doing, working with organisations, sometimes getting asked to come in and look at the technology, which is fine. That's not a bad starting point. But generally, let's have a look, is it just the technology? How are people being treated? And so on. So I look at this thing holistically and really do try to look at the big picture.
Blair Stevenson (04:33)
Nice. I just want to pick up on something you said. You talked about developing your own ideas, and I know you've identified four fundamental principles that you consider are vital to underpinning a successful customer experience strategy. So just talk us through those principles.
Gerry Brown (04:51)
Sure. They are Culture, Communication, Commitment, and Community. As has been popular for some time, coming up with three or four Cs or Ps, whatever they happen to be. So that wasn't accidental.
But I did put some study into this, and I thought, "Well, what is it that makes great companies do the things they do well?" And most of the things that I've done throughout my business life have been based on experiences I've had in my personal life, how well I’ve been treated by an organisation.
So when I started to look at those companies that I dealt with as an individual, I thought, "What did they do well?" And of course, we've got the classics, we've got the Zappos of the world, in the UK we've got the First Directs, we've got the likes of John Lewis, all of these people. And I started to look a little bit deeper into what is it that makes them good companies. And this is what came out.
(05:52)
They have a culture, they have a culture of inclusivity. You think about John Lewis here in the UK, for those that are familiar with John Lewis, although their crown is slipping a little bit, perhaps, but it's been a challenging time for everyone. And they've got this partnership program. Everyone is considered to be part of the business. The commitment side of it, commitment from the top.
Any organisation that does not have commitment from the senior executives - even though they say they do, many of them don't - it's going to be difficult. But they also need commitment from the bottom. So you need to have everyone in the organisation committed to doing it.
And then we have communication. How well do we communicate? How well do we communicate with our customers, of course, but also with our partners, with our employees, with our colleagues, et cetera?
(06:27)
And what we've been seeing recently with the pandemic, and I've hit on this quite a bit, is how poor the communication has been. We continue to go to websites and be greeted with messages that say "Due to unprecedented demand, our response time is going to be..." All of this kind of stuff, where you've had 16, 18 months to work it out, and that's no longer good. So effective communication, listening and responding.
And then lastly, community. And this has never been more important than it has been over the last 18 months, getting people to come together, really realising that what they do is as a community. And I don't mean being forced to do things, but that they do of their own volition.
And again, you look at some of these organisations, Zappos is probably one of the best examples of that. A great community of people coming together, doing the things they do. And not doing it because they have to do it, or being told to do it, but because it's in their DNA.
And so those are the things that I found were useful. They were useful when I started thinking about them, and I revisit them all the time. And I find that they still play a big part in how an organisation treats its customers, treats its colleagues, treats its partners.
Blair Stevenson (07:36)
Yeah. It makes a huge amount of sense. Commitment, Communication, Culture, Community. So clearly commitment and communication are vital. And to some extent, you could argue that they underpin the other two areas of culture and community.
And I'd just like to explore that idea of culture, because the way I define culture is "The way we do things around here." Which in a way speaks to employee experience. And I just wonder about how you see that connection, the relationship between employee experience and customer experience?
Gerry Brown (08:19)
Well, I think they're very tightly linked. And there was an interesting post on LinkedIn within the last two or three weeks, saying that there is no connection. Somebody was writing the story saying, very controversially, "Forget it, forget that link. It doesn't exist." The point of that was that a lot of the interactions now are with bots. Therefore, we shouldn't care about employee experience.
Well, unfortunately, a lot of those bot experiences aren't good ones, for one thing. Secondly, when the bot fails, or the question is too hard, then you're forced into talking to a real person, which we love to do anyway. And therefore, unless you've got people that are willing and able, and when I say able, they have all the tools available to them.
So from an employee experience perspective, what do we need to do? Some of it's education, some of it's the tools they use. If they've got a good CRM program that they can go to, that they have confidence in. Are they rewarded fairly, and not treated poorly if they don't do well? All of these things.
So I don't think you can have a great customer experience without having a great employee experience. Those things will always be linked.
And another thing that I looked at quite a few years ago was the linkage between voice of the customer and voice of the employee. One of the things about listening to employees is really learning about some of the challenges that you have, or what customers have. And so you simply can't separate them.
And people like Richard Branson will say, "A happy employee will mean a happy customer", and so on. It's true. We've seen lots of cartoons - one that I remember is a beaten down employee and the wording is something like, "The beatings will continue until the attitudes improve."
And that's probably politically incorrect these days, but you know what I'm saying. That idea that you can keep people chained to a desk, and the way contact centres used to be, and perhaps some still are, you simply can't succeed that way.
And in the last 18 months, the way that many organisations that I've dealt with - through some of the conferences that I've chaired - I’ve talked to many people whose experience with treating their people really well during this pandemic has really paid dividends. And so I will always believe that you cannot separate those two, and that having a great employee experience, colleague engagement, whatever you want to call it, is absolutely vital.
Blair Stevenson (11:14)
Yeah. I agree. In fact, I'm a big fan of the concept, as you say, it's a little bit simplistic, but "Your people come first." Or put another way, "Customers come second."
And I think these days in particular, where in reality contact centre agents - because of the fact that organisations are getting their customers to act digitally, "Go on the web, fill this form out, complete your interactions here." - the reality is that now agents are dealing with more complex issues.
Because the people who have the simple tasks to do, they can do themselves. It's where people have problems or have more complex tasks they require agents who actually need to be more empathetic and better problem solvers.
I want to pick up on this idea further about culture. Because as you rightly pointed out just a moment ago, the pandemic has had quite a significant - in many ways - negative impact on culture.
I was talking to a senior contact centre leader just the other day. And she was saying, one of the things she's struggling with is the fact that all the people they've onboarded since the start of the pandemic, none of them have come into their centre. And she's starting to worry that their culture is starting to break down.
And so what I find fascinating is that I'm hearing from more and more contact centre leaders, and more and more organisations, that they are now deliberately intending to continue to work from home, post-pandemic, purely for cost saving reasons. But I just wonder from a customer experience perspective, what are the cultural challenges that's going to create? And what do you think of some of the potential solutions to that?
Gerry Brown (13:14)
Well, it's definitely not black and white. This isn't going to be, "Well, everyone's going to be working from home forever." We've seen here in the UK this week where various government people are suggesting that you must come into the office, you must come to the office three days a week, that type of thing.
But when we look at it from a contact centre perspective - and I've been fortunate to talk to lots of people in this business - I think that we're seeing the two sides. We're seeing the company side, of course as you point out, that they're recognising that there are significant cost savings to be made from not running these huge contact centre offices, and having all of these people, 500 to 1000 people, in one place.
But at the same time, you've got the other side of it. You've got the employee side that does like to get together. We know that contact centres are very community oriented. You've been in them, I've been in so many of them. They're bringing in candies, they're bringing in cakes and everything, and it's just a very collaborative and community type of place.
So I don't think there's one model for every business. I think what we've found is, firstly, the technology lends itself to more people working from home. So that's a good part of it. But I think what we're going to see is the idea of a sort of local hub, or regional hub, where people can get together.
(14:48)
So perhaps from a business perspective, if you've got a 500 seat call centre in this location, perhaps what you will have is three or four smaller hubs, capable of having a hundred people in them, that are geographically located well for many of the employees. And that won't last forever, people move around, but thinking of it from that perspective.
Where you ask people perhaps to come in two or three days a week, somewhere that's a little more local, although most people tend to live near where their contact centres are. That's one of the reasons that a lot of them are that way. So I think we'll see this idea of a regional hub beginning to develop, which will still be less costly for the company.
It will encourage people to come in, whether that's two days a week, and perhaps that's an incentive. Maybe the incentive is to work from home on Friday. Now everyone will want to work from home on Friday, I guess, but we're going to work these things through.
And the organisations that have close relationships with their employees, that can sit down and say, "Ladies and gentlemen, this is what we're planning to do. What would work for you?" And obviously everyone isn't going to get everything they want, but that's where this whole idea of culture, community, commitment and communication comes together. That says, "Right. What's the business of the future going to look like?"
So I think the jury is definitely still out. But I've been fortunate to talk to people who've mooted this, it's not my idea, people have talked about these things. And I think we're hearing more of it, so I think we're going to see these things start to evolve.
(16:24)
And the other part of that, of course, is the commute. People are realising, and we're still seeing lots of people who are saying, "Boy, I haven't missed that commute. I haven't missed lining up in a crowded train", especially with what's going on, but that's something I haven't missed.
Fortunately, a lot of the work I do I can do from home, but I'd be regularly going different places. So not getting on a train and going to London or somewhere like that has been a great relief for me. So I don't want to get back into that.
Those companies that get it will have this discussion with their teams and figure out how best they can make it work. It won't be perfect. It won't work forever in this way, but I think we're going to see this start to evolve. I don't know if we have to get through another winter of things before it starts to happen, but as we're seeing here in the UK, we hope that that will start happening soon.
Blair Stevenson (17:25)
I think this whole idea of community is incredibly important. It's kind of interesting the concept of regional hubs for organisations.
I don't recall people who did the research, but a few years ago, some research was done in the contact centre space around how do you improve performance through community? The proposition was that potentially, the more interactions that an agent has with their colleagues, the more productive they are likely to be. And as it happens, the research indicated that was true.
Which goes to show that as you rightly pointed out, community is really important. It's the interactions between people. So we have to find ways to get those interactions happening while we have a work from home, or at least a partial work from home hybrid model going on.
Obviously employee experience and engagement is are really critical. But you've also written about organisational engagement as well. I'm just curious about what you mean by that term.
Gerry Brown (18:38)
I wrote something about this fairly recently. And I'd written it, I think probably four or five years ago, when I started down this path of organisational engagement and I said, "Okay, well, is that different from what we've been talking about?" And it is to an extent, and you've just touched on it a little bit with what you was talking about with people's interactions with their colleagues.
I've been a very, very big fan of cross-functional collaboration for a long time. And when I'm engaged with an organisation, one of the first things I look for is, has there been any? In other words, I like to go into the contact centre to sit and listen, to do side-by-sides, listen to calls and so on.
And once I've done that, one of the first questions I say, "Well, clearly there's an issue here with your shipping department, or your marketing department, or whatever it happens to be." And one of the first things I ask about is, "Well, when was the last time you got together and discussed some of these things with your colleagues and other parts of the business?" And they say, "Well, rarely." And I say, "Well, why is that?" "Well, we have the occasional meeting. It's an ad hoc thing. It's not something that's planned."
(19:48)
And so one of the first things I suggest to the senior team is to put together a small cross-functional team. Now, depending on the size of the business, that might be five or six people. You'll have someone from the customer service contact centre, you'll have a marketing person, you'll have an IT person and so on.
And also within their own parts of the organisation. We encourage the contact centre team to have a discussion about some of the challenges they have, the marketing team, and so on, and then come together with those issues. Bring them together. So organisational engagement is just that. It's just a fancy word, I guess, for cross-functional teams. Coming together on a regular basis, not occasionally. Monthly is good if you can. And bringing these issues together.
It's the same thing we talk about with a lot of these kinds of things, there's no 'buts' in this, "Well, we can't do that because...", instead "I'm not saying it'll happen, but we bring the ideas to the table."
(20:43)
This isn't new stuff, but so many organisations don't do it. But that's why I thought it was necessary to bring it up.
And so having this organisational approach to things and then saying, "Right, well, here's our list of things that we want to then take to our senior leadership team", who may still say, "Sorry, we don't have the money. We can't do it." But when an organisation takes that approach, and people see that their concerns are at least being listened to - obviously they should be actioned as well - and hopefully someone will actually get through. Then you've got something going for you.
So that's what I mean by organisational engagement. When you take the things that are happening, bring them into one place, get them resolved if you can. Get them surfaced with senior leadership, and in an ideal world, have some of those things fixed.
Blair Stevenson (21:34)
What sort of reactions do you find from both the people who are involved in those workshops, but also the wider business, from that going on?
Gerry Brown (21:45)
They love it. Most of the time I say "Have you done this?", "No, we haven't done this?", "What do you think?", "Oh, this is a great idea." And they get together, they're very supportive once you show them that their ideas have value.
I've been working with an organisation which is a local housing association, and we've been doing some of this with them. You've got a broad range of people in a housing association, as you can imagine. You've got the frontline people, the men and women who are out in the front line, doing the gardening, cleaning up the garbage, doing all of this work. You've got the frontline people who are going in repairing boilers, doing the plumbing, and so on.
We brought them together and it was great because they said, "We have no idea what happens." I said, "Well, when you show up at a property and the people aren't expecting you, because someone in the office didn't let them know that we were coming, 'Oh, well, you're here to fix it.'" Simple things. And it sounds so obvious. "Well, why aren't we doing it?"
(22:56)
And in that particular organisation, the senior leadership team, we had just a brief session in a time when we brought some people together. And one of the senior guys, he said, "I've got so many things written down that I had no idea about. Why hasn't this been happening? Why has it taken someone like Gerry to come in?"
And you have to keep it going, and this is the important thing. Most people, we think about meetings, "Oh God, another meeting." But if you have a meeting that is action-oriented, where people have a chance in a positive way. This isn't meant to be a moaning session. It's to get people to say, "Well, we'd like to be able to fix this, or we'd like to be able to do that."
And then if you give them that opportunity, they will relish the opportunity to come and have that session. So it's not another boring company meeting because it's them bringing their ideas. They're bringing their feelings, their emotions, all of this comes out in a very positive way. So I can only say that if you've tried it and it hasn't worked, then try again.
Blair Stevenson (24:05)
Yeah. It makes sense. Typically, what sort of benefits to the organisation have you experienced from those ongoing alignment workshops?
Gerry Brown (24:16)
The first thing is that they can perhaps save some time and effort. It can reduce complaints, because once you start to understand, "Why are we getting complaints about this?" So maybe that's a starting point. People track complaints. "Well, why are we getting a complaint about - let's say - a tradesperson didn't show up on time. Well, what happened there?", "Well the reason was the technology, or we didn't let...”, or whatever it happens to be.
So you start getting into procedural things. Some of which are quite straight forward. So you find out, "Well, maybe our processes are broken." So you start fixing some of those things. And then you say, "Well, if we can reduce complaints, and customer - whatever you want to call it, CSAT, NPS, any of these measures - if we can start reducing these, and we can start improving our feedback results, that's a good thing.”
And then if we can get people happier in their jobs, if the people that are doing these things, getting involved in these, they're less likely to leave. Retention is improving. So you start to see these kinds of things happen, when people realise they're being listened to, they say, "Well, this is actually a good place to work. I was going to leave, but they look like they're changing what they're doing."
You see the process start to improve. So customers get a better feeling for that. And some organiastions will publish this. As much as you can, say "We're trying to get better". And all of a sudden, things start to look better for customers, for employees, and your costs.
Generally speaking, if you have to go out and do a job again, if you send a man out or a woman out to do a piece of work and they can't do it, that's going to cost the company some money, whatever it is.
So I think there's lots of benefits. And it's being honest, it's being open, it's being frank and making sure that these things are surfaced properly. But if you do it, you will see the benefits in many different ways.
Blair Stevenson (26:19)
Hard to argue against. Just a couple more questions to wrap up. One of them is, what's the one thing businesses can do to get a full senior level commitment to both employee experience and customer experience?
Gerry Brown (26:37)
Well, I've sort of touched on it, and that's one of the things that I ask people when I first go into an organisation, and if I'm doing a side-by-side in a contact centre, the first thing I ask them is, "When was the last time your CEO or MD was here?" Often the answer is "Never."
So I would say to businesses, the very first thing you can do, before you even bring someone like me in, if you want to, is have them have the CEO, MD or a senior person, and perhaps that can be a team. Not a big team, but perhaps over a week, you have five days, half a day each, a senior executive goes in to the contact centre, goes out, perhaps in some cases.
We found with this organisation I was talking about, where the senior members went out on the road with one of the crew. And they learned lots from that. And it sounds obvious. This is sort of like the TV program, the boss in disguise, or whatever it is, but this works, and it saves you a lot of time.
And I was involved in a bit of an internet discussion on LinkedIn about insight and analytics and is it worth it? How much should you spend on it? Blah, blah, blah. And I said, "Okay, here's the simple view. Get a cross-functional team, buy a stock of pizzas, have them sit down and talk about this, then bring in the senior team and repeat.”
So that was a simplistic way of saying, yes, I'm not saying you shouldn't use insight and analytics, that you shouldn't use feedback, but boy, I'll tell you, you put a senior team member into a contact centre, on a truck with a tradesperson, whatever it has to be for half a day, they will learn more in that half day than all the analytics in the world could possibly give you. And you assume they want to do it.
But that's the one thing I tell people, I've been telling people this for years. Some people listen, some people do it and others say, "Yeah, well..." And I've seen some really good examples of organisations that have done this, where they actually say to their executives, "Ladies and gentlemen, you are expected to spend half a day in the organisation and doing this kind of thing."
And some of the companies that do this really well in the UK, Timpson is a very well-known brand, they're small shops that do key cutting and shoe repair and so on. And Timpson is a great example. James Timpson who's the current MD, it's a family owned business, has been family run for 120 years at least. They hire a lot of ex-offenders and they do a lot of this kind of stuff. They go and see what's going on in the store. And they have tremendous employee engagement. They're a real poster child for this kind of thing.
Same thing, Richer Sounds is another one in the UK, which is well-known for this kind of stuff. So these are the businesses that have succeeded because they've taken the time to go in, understand what's going on, and then make the changes they need to make.
Blair Stevenson (29:40)
Makes perfect sense. So to finish up, for any senior leaders who are listening at the moment, what are the top three tips you've got for enhancing organisational engagement in order to improve customer experience?
Gerry Brown (29:54)
Tip #1
They have to come back to this cross-functional team idea. That's the first one. You've got to have a mechanism. We all hate more meetings, especially given where we are right now, but I think that's the first thing. You've got to agree very clearly that you're going to give people the opportunity to surface these ideas. So give them that mechanism, that monthly opportunity to do that.
Tip #2 (30:25)
And then secondly, you've got to be in a position to say, "Right, once we've got that, we have to action that." Now that might involve some of the Holy Trinity, so it could be procedural, it could be people, it could be technology.
So you have to be prepared to say, "Right, well, if the feedback is that we've got a poorly operating CRM or our contact centre system is..." And as you know, doing what you do, there's lots of people that haven't upgraded that in a while.
We're hearing all this about digital and how important digital is, and therefore is it going to be fit for purpose? So we have to be prepared not just to listen to good ideas, procedurally and so on, but to have a real hard look at the technology.
Tip #3 (31:10)
And then the third part of that is, when we're thinking about digital, and there's a lot of people talking about digital transformation, "Oh, we've got to be digital", and the CEO's going big on digital, well, let's think about what that means. Does that mean we have to have everything digital, do we have to have all our channels digital?
And for many businesses, they spend a lot of time going through every channel to make sure it's a digitally enabled, or having digital channels when you may or may not need it. So the question there is, what does being digital really mean? I mentioned earlier about bots, we've heard a lot about people saying, "Well, are bots any good? And if the bot doesn't work, whose fault is that?" Well, it's the fault of the organisation. You can't blame the bot. It's really about how do we use this?
(32:06)
So I think it's bringing these things together, organisational engagement, everyone having a view - the people that you involve in this. And I think when you start doing that, when people start seeing that people are listening to them, that people are actually making a difference, changes are taking place.
Some of these things are going to be costly. I've been involved recently with an organisation looking at a new CRM program. As it turned out, it was a small company. So it wasn't quite the same as a large one, but we started looking at some CRM programs. We found some good ones out there. And obviously some of the big names, but some of the other names, which you can put in relatively inexpensively, most of these things you can trial now.
So this is one of the things about the cloud. So when I talk about digital, being able to trial some of these things, so I'd certainly encourage people to do this. And we found that we could input a new CRM system. And in this case, everyone didn't need to have access to it. So it was relatively low cost. Have it up and running, import data into it, do some of the marketing things you need to do. We did it in a very short period of time. So it doesn't have to be forever.
(33:17)
So when you get to the point where you need to look at new technology, what we're finding is that most businesses, technology companies these days, you'll notice this too, are more than willing to get engaged with you. You don't have to go to RFP (Request for Proposal). You might have to because of who you are, if you're a government organisation, but get this stuff in, start working with it, start playing with it. Most of these companies will let you do that. They want you to test it. So getting your hands dirty and involved.
These are the kinds of things that I mean by organisational engagement. Not just sitting back, hoping that IT is going to make a decision on a new technology. Get everyone involved, they'll all love you for it. They really will. Because how often have you heard people say, "Well, they have this new system, nobody has asked us about it." These are all elements of organisational engagement that I really encourage people to think about.
Blair Stevenson (34:09)
Awesome. Thank you for sharing, Gerry. Really appreciate it. Well, that's it for today. For listeners, you'll find the link to the show notes in the episode description below.
And if you'd like to connect with Gerry on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerryhbrown/), you'll also find the link to his LinkedIn profile in the description too.
Lastly, if you'd like to follow me on LinkedIn as well (https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevensonblair/), you'll find a link to my profile there too.
Well, that's it from us today. Have a productive week.