11 Top Tips for Managing Millennials
With Josh Krissansen, Managing Director at Blogger Boy
Show Notes
Josh Krissansen is the Managing Director at Blogger Boy. He’s a Millennial born in 1993, and with five years’ experience as a Sales Manager, he's also managed Millennials. Particularly as Head of Sales, responsible for an inside sales team doing outbound calling.
As a result, he’s got a number of great tips on how to get the best from the Millennials you manage.
Top 3 Tips:
Many Millennials see working in a contact centre as a career steppingstone. Find out what their career goals are, so you can help them understand how what they’re learning and doing is going to benefit them in the future (25:30).
Give them more autonomy where possible, along with the tools they need to come up with their own decisions. Retention will improve because they’ll be more engaged, and you’ll have happier customers (25:57).
Like Gary V suggests, use kind candour. Which means being straight up and honest, coming from a place of good intention (26:25).
You'll Learn:
The personality trait which separates Millennials from previous generations, and it’s implications (03:07).
Why working for established companies can be a challenge for Millennials, and what to do about it (04:00).
What happened at school and at home for Millennials, and its huge impact on how they want to be managed (05:27).
What Millennials need more than any other generation, but often don’t get enough of (10:30).
How to let them self-correct when they’re off-track (13:50).
How to have a constructive conversation with a Millennial if they’re off-track (14:44).
The changes in your business systems which Millennials require, so you get the best from them, and deliver better customer experience (19:15).
The number one thing your youngest employees want to be in their career, and how you can help them achieve it (23:19).
Connect with Josh here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-krissansen/
Get your free copy of Game On here: https://bravatrak.com/game-on-book (you’ll also get the latest podcast episodes sent straight to your inbox).
Transcript
Blair Stevenson (00:00)
Welcome to the Secrets to Contact Center Success podcast, connecting you with the latest and greatest tips from the best and the brightest minds in the industry.
I am Blair Stevenson, founder of BravaTrak, the High-Performance Coaching System for Contact Centres. It helps you to create and sustain a world-class coaching culture, so you can beat your targets without burning people out.
Today I am joined by Josh Krissansen, to talk about managing Millennials. And in case you've be living under a rock, the Millennial generation is the demograhic group born from the early 1980s to the late 1990s. Most of the frontline staff in contact centers are now Millennials, as are more than half of all Team Leaders.
Josh is a Millennial born in 1993, and with five years experience as a Sales Manager, he's also managed Millennials. Particularly as Head of Sales, responsible for an inside sales team doing outbound calling.
Today, Josh is going to take you through what you need to bear in mind to get the best out of the Millennials that you manage. So Josh, welcome along. Good to have you here.
Josh Krissansen (01:10)
Thanks Blair. I'm excited to be here.
Blair Stevenson (01:12)
Awesome. Awesome. Hey, just to start out with, just tell us a little bit about your background and your expertise.
Josh Krissansen (01:19)
Yeah, sure. So I guess it started my sales leadership journey in sort of a retail used car yard for Turners. So kind of like used cars, but more like a big box retailer, in the way that, you know, we were selling like 300 cars a month. So very fast paced. And my sales team - about I think 10 or 12 people - they were all Millennials younger than myself, or around my age.
And then from there I moved into an inside sales role, where I was a Sales Manager for a smaller team at a startup. And I kind of went from being one of the youngest in the company to one of the oldest in the company, at like 25. So that was a really interesting transition. And obviously then still working with Millennials and even sort of touching on Generation Z a little bit, I suppose.
And now I'm running my own company called Blogger Boy. We write blog posts for marketing agencies, and pretty much all of our writing team and editors are Millennials as well. And it's very much that modern young workforce. An entirely remote company. So I'm sort of well immersed in that cutting edge of how workplaces exist today. Especially post COVID.
Blair Stevenson (02:49)
Yeah, exactly. So you're in a great position to talk about the experiences you've had, and what works, and what doesn't. So I'm just curious about from a workplace point of view, in your view, what are the primary ways that the Millennial generation differs from previous generations?
Josh Krissansen (03:07)
Sure. It's always kind of an interesting thing to check out because it's never really quite clear cut between like adjacent generations.
You know, the difference between Millennials and say Generation X might as not quite as noticeable, until you look at jumping over a generation. So Millennials versus baby boomers. That's where you start to see like some very different types of characters and that's where the conflict sort of start to emerge in the workplace, I think.
So I think the main things are Millennials are kind of known for being a bit entitled. Which I think kind of often has a negative spin to it, but in the workplace, I think that kind of translates to a huge desire for respect and for autonomy. You know, not wanting to sort of be a cog in the machine, as it were. So there's that element.
(04:00)
Obviously, as a part of our nature and the environment that we've grown up in, we kind of just want everything now. Like we have access to everything on our phone. And so we're kind of used to that fast pace. That go, go, go.
So I think it can be a challenge for a lot of Millennials working in older companies with an established way of doing things. Or a bureaucracy, I guess you could say. Because some things take longer than a Millennial might expect, not knowing the deep reasons why.
And then thirdly, and I think this is a really important one for frontline managers, is that we have a really strong need for consistent feedback and immediate feedback. Both positive and negative. Like we want to be told all the time if we're doing great or if we're not doing great. So maybe not so great at self-assessing.
Blair Stevenson (05:01)
Yeah. So it kind of reminds me, you once told me an amusing story about something you discovered when you had been back home clearing out some of, I guess, some of the items that your parents had kept for you. And so I was just wondering if you'd be willing to tell listeners that story, and the implications of what you discovered from that, for both Managers and Team Leaders.
Josh Krissansen (05:27)
Yeah, sure. That was quite interesting. It was about a year and a half ago. I was kind of going through a lot of memoirs that my Mum had kept for me. Like boxes and boxes of stuff. All sorts of, sort of funny things in there, bless her.
But one thing I came across was a ton of certificates from my time at primary and intermediate school. I mean, I've always been a little bit of an over-achiever, so some of them were legit certificates. But a lot of them were that classic participation certificate where you're like, "What is the point of this?".
And I came across one that ... we used to do this thing when I was in primary school. We used to focus on values, so like respect and honesty and that kind of stuff. And we used to have to tell our peers when we saw them exhibiting one of these values. And then our teachers also used to give out certificates at assembly.
And I found one and it was something along the lines of "Josh, we've noticed you practicing the value of joyfulness". Which is basically a certificate that says "Hey, good on you for being happy". How is that even an achievement that's worth calling out? I don't know.
But that was just one of many. Like a full banana box of these things. Which I thought was really funny, because I guess you know, nineties parents were kind of focused on this idea that you can develop self-esteem in a child through consistent praise. And that was something that was really important because, I guess, developmental psychologists had recently found out that high self-esteem was a really good predictor of future success.
And so the logic follows then that if we build self-esteem into our kids, then they're more likely to be successful. Maybe not taking into account that maybe it works the other way around as well. Like people who are successful have more self-esteem, because they're more successful. But it goes both ways.
(07:40)
It was as a valid idea, I'm sure. But the problem is life doesn't work like that. People don't just go around telling you how awesome you are. So we Millennials kind of went through life as kids getting all this great positive feedback. And then it kind of just dropped off after - even during - high school, and created this approval vacuum or deficit, where that's just not happening anymore.
So I guess, you know, the difficulty for managers is that you have to give Millennials way more feedback. Both positive and negative. But I guess the upshot of that is that because Millennials are so hungry for it, and they're not getting it, when you are able to deliver it, it has a huge impact. Much more than with any other generation.
So I think the main learning I had there, was that oh right, I see why. I saw all of the puzzle pieces fit together and go, “Okay, I understand why I'm like that. And others around me are like that as well.”
Blair Stevenson (08:49)
Yup. Makes perfect sense. And you know, this need for both a lot of positive feedback, but also, you know, corrective feedback to get back on track, kind of reminds me that the employee engagement company, Gallup, has discovered that what Millennials are looking for in the workplace are not managers, but coaches. Which calls out that need for feedback.
Because I know you've been really successful managing people, I'm curious about what coaching techniques you discovered have helped you drive sales performance and other behavioral outcomes that you want amongst the Millennials who work for you?
Josh Krissansen (09:40)
Sure. Yeah. I think that idea of wanting a coach rather than a manager kind of ties into that idea of autonomy or entitlement. You know, no one really likes being told what to do and when to do it. But I think Millennials are probably a little bit more averse to that than others. We're like, "No, let me do it my way".
So I guess the important thing as a manager is that you need to set your expectations of your team really clearly. So let them know where their boundaries are. But then kind of give them a bit of autonomy to be able to go and work within those boundaries, and maybe even push them a little bit. And kind of be there to support them throughout that.
(10:30)
So part of that is giving them both positive and constructive feedback. The positive thing is pretty easy in theory. You just spot people doing good things and tell them, you know, immediately and specifically what they did and try and link that back into, I guess, the wider goals of the business. Or even their wider personal goals.
The problem is actually being aware of making time to go and check that stuff out and identify it. Because it doesn't always spring to mind that when you see someone doing something good to praise them for it. Especially if it's kind of an expectation. And a lot of times what they're doing well is their job. So it doesn't pop into your head to go, "Oh, congrats, you're doing your job".
Blair Stevenson (11:27)
And it's even harder for baby boomers.
Josh Krissansen (11:30)
Especially, right? Because on the flip side, and I talked earlier about where you have that divide, when you jump over a generation, baby boomers are much more likely to be happy following direct orders. "Do this, then this, then this". And be totally cool with that.
Because to them, that's what jobs were about, especially if we go back 40 odd years, and we talk about what roles and what jobs looked like then. People were performing roles that were ... stuff that we have machines and computers doing now, right?
So you can see that it's a lot more of a logical flow and there's less room for, I guess, creative autonomy. So you really have to actually put it down on your to-do list for the day, or put a spot on your calendar, or have some form of reminder to actually go out and make it happen.
(12:24)
One of the things I used to do was just go out and hang out in the sales room or on the sales floor, and just hang out there with the team and just watch and observe things. And, you know, you catch up a little bit and learn about them on a personal level, which is important for Millennials. That's part of that coaching thing.
But, I don't know, maybe you go out and have lunch with them. Or something like that. The idea is putting a conscious effort into, "Okay, I need to go and find someone doing something that I want them to be doing, and then I want to tell them."
Blair Stevenson (13:05)
So it's all about maintaining motivation. Encouraging them to keep doing the good stuff you want them to keep doing.
Josh Krissansen (13:11)
Hugely. Yeah. A hundred percent. Because they don't know if you're not saying to them "that was awesome". And if you don't say anything, they might assume that you didn't like it.
If you don't say anything, they're going to go "Oh, I tried really hard, and such-and-such didn't tell me I did a good job. So maybe I'm not going to do it next time. Because maybe they actually didn't like it. And they were too scared to tell me or something."
Blair Stevenson (13:35)
Yeah, it's a good point. So it's about confirmation, "Hey, you're on the right track. You're doing a great job because of these positive impacts on the organization or the team, or even just your own personal purpose."
Josh Krissansen (13:50)
Yeah. Hugely. And then I think on the opposite end, you know, when you're talking about constructive feedback, in the sort of realm of giving them that freedom and that autonomy, I think one thing you really need to ask yourself when you want to go and talk to someone and give them that feedback, is "Do I want to pull them up because I think they're about to mess up, or that they did mess up? Or if I just want to pull them up because I would do it a different way, or I think it would be a better way?"
Because if it's the latter, you might risk losing out on a learning opportunity for them, right? So sometimes you kind of have to let them fail a little bit. You know, like letting your kids fall down the stairs a couple of times. So they know, "Okay, stairs are kind of dangerous, I better be careful when I'm walking up and down the stairs", right?
So, sure, sometimes people do stuff out of line, and that's part of being a manager as well. But I guess the important part is to ensure that you're not jumping in prematurely and missing out on a learning and a coaching opportunity. And if you are having that constructive conversation, that you're really careful not to criticize the character of the person, or the fact that they tried to take initiative - because that's actually a positive thing - but more help them, or guide them to realize where that mistake was made.
Whereas if you just criticize the outcome, they might just go, "Well, I'm just not going to try next time. And next time I'm faced with the situation, I'm just kind to come and knock on your door and ask you to help me." You know, that's not what we want as Team Leaders.
Blair Stevenson (15:38)
No, it's not. And I think also that, you know, good people can have bad days. So just because makes one mistake, why spend the time on it? Unless it's clear that it's becoming a trend.
Josh Krissansen (15:55)
I agree. And allowing them to figure out when they've made that mistake is, I think, the important thing.
It just reminded me of a time when I was a sales person on the floor. And I made a dumb mistake. I had a negative reaction to someone who was being rude, and I was rude back to them in a very unprofessional way. And after the interaction, I was like "Okay. That was wrong."
So I just went and knocked on my manager's door and I was like "Hey, look, this might come across your desk, because rightfully so, if they complained, this is what happened." And they were obviously like, "Yeah, you shouldn't have done that."
But I think I understood that I was able to recognize where I went wrong and they were like, "Well, my job's kind of done here." So I think that's what we're trying to develop, right?
Blair Stevenson (16:45)
Yeah, exactly. I think one of the other stand-out characteristics to me for Millennials is they're really the first generation who grew up as either adolescents, or at least as young adults, with access to a computer in their hand, in the form of a smartphone.
And, you know, that's made them quite, I think, information-centric. Because, literally, they have information at their fingertips. I'm just curious about what implications that has for Contact Centre Leaders and Inside Sales Leaders in terms of how they set up their business operations.
Josh Krissansen (17:34)
Yeah, sure. I think that has a huge impact actually. I think I'm lucky enough to have worked in a company that was over 50 years old and had, you know, some deeply embedded processes that, to me, made no sense at all. Because they felt restricting.
And now on the opposite side, you know, I'm running a company that's completely remote. I work from my laptop anywhere and everywhere. And all of my team members are anywhere in the world. America, Africa, Europe, like everywhere.
So I can see where boundaries exist in, I guess, legacy systems. And I can see how, I guess, from a contact center perspective, that can be really frustrating for reps. Like I've seen some systems that people are working in, like they're still like working in MS-DOS or something, you know. They're crazy old and slow.
And I just think the whole idea of a contact center rep is to help your customer as quickly as possible. But as a contact centre rep, if I don't have the tools to be able to do that, then I'm not going to be able to do that. And I'm probably actually going to get frustrated with it.
So I think the idea is, you know, as a hiring manager, working in contact centers, you're going to be hiring Millennials and probably even Generation Z, which is, you know, just taking the same principles, but even further. Because, you know, you're hiring people who are fresh out of school or Uni, or working part-time while they're studying and that kind of thing.
So you can either try and fit those people into your system, which, good luck, or you can make your system fit them. And, you know, maybe open up some of the permission sets a little bit, and give them a bit more autonomy to solve those problems. Yes, it opens up a little bit of risk, and you know, it's important to try and mitigate that risk, but kind of weigh that up against the wellbeing of your employees and what that means for your customers, right? If you've got happy employees on the phones, you're going to have happy customers.
So, you know, invest in infrastructure like Slack, or voice chat, or making sure that they've got, you know, headsets that work, and that they can actually hear people on. I think probably, you know, you might not have the ability to change all of those things as a frontline manager. Because you're working within the confines of a larger organization. But I guess to some degree it's important that you kind of go into bat for your team, and you're pushing for those changes.
(20:34)
And then if you can't get them across the line for whatever reason. It might be budget, or it might be some legacy constraints that "We can't do that, because of this", then I think it's important from the Millennial perspective that you communicate to them A, that you tried, but B, like why. So they can really get it.
Because just being told, "Oh, it's because it's how we've always done things", it's just not good enough from our perspective. You know, it's like, no. You don't get to say that. Stuff changes all the time. You just can't say that. It's not valid. Sorry.
Blair Stevenson (21:13)
Yeah, I guess if there are any benefits of COVID, one of them has been the rapid adoption of chat, of Microsoft Teams, or some form of video conferencing capability, which has gone at least some way to solving those issues.
So there's actually just one last thing I'd like to dig into with you, Josh. We run coaching surveys for organizations. And one of the things which has popped up out up out of that is we've been able to identify the top two drivers of employee engagement in terms of how Managers and Team Leaders operate.
And one of those two drivers is development. When people have development opportunities, they tend to be more highly engaged. If they don't, they're less engaged. And I suspect that's really driven by the needs of Millennials, because they're the frontline staff who are mostly answering the survey.
What's your take on that?
Josh Krissansen (22:23)
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I think a lot of people from previous generations saw career development as getting a job at the bottom of a company and working your way up for 20, 30 years to, I don't know, General Manager or something like that.
And what I think a lot of young people today are seeing that development journey as kind of getting a job to ... rather than to work your way up, more to learn, to then be able to have the tools to go off and maybe chase their dream job or to start their own company or something like that.
And kind of have this idea that you're either in a role to learn or to earn. And even as a high earner in a corporate job, you're earnings are limited in comparison to what you might be able to do as an entrepreneur or something like that.
(23:19)
I heard something recently. I'm not sure how valid this is, but apparently the number one thing that Generation Z kids these days want to be is not like an athlete or a rock star, they want to be influencers, or YouTubers or vloggers.
And to me that's like, that's, entrepreneurial-ism, right? That's "I want to create something for myself and push it out to the world". And the drive there might be creativity, or it might be an earnings, or it might be freedom or whatever.
But I don't think that many Millennials and Generation Z are dreaming of a long-term career as a contact centre rep. It's a part of their wider journey to wherever they're going. And hopefully, you know, when they're in that role, they recognize that they can develop some seriously valuable skills. You know, you're talking to people all day long, you're solving problems.
So I think as the manager, you need to recognize that you're probably going have a high employee turnover. And maybe rather than trying to fight that, it would be a good idea to embrace the fact that you're part of that journey and be happy if they're moving on to something that is closer to that goal.
Blair Stevenson (24:49)
Yup. And I think historically, we've always gone "Well, turnover is bad". But actually you're right. We just need to accept that people come into that role for a period of time. And you're going to get the best out of them by developing them. Either to move up within the organization or to move into a role outside.
Heaps of really useful advice today, Josh, thank you. Just to wrap up very quickly, what would be your top three tips for managing Millennials?
Josh Krissansen (25:25)
Yeah, sure. I think that last one, that last point is, has got to be one of those.
Tip #1 (25:30)
You know, recognizing that you're part of their career journey and getting really close to what their wider goals are, so that you can help them to understand how what they're learning and what they're doing - day-to-day in the contact centre, or any other role that it might be - how that's going to benefit them in the future. So they're less likely to see it as, you know, the day-to-day grind that they have to do to pay the rent. So that's number one.
Tip #2 (25:57)
Number two is, I would say, is to try and increase their autonomy where possible. Give them the tools that they need to be able to come to decisions on their own. You'll keep them for longer by doing that because they're going to be more engaged and more fulfilled. And if they're happier, more engaged, you're going to have happier, more engaged customers.
Tip #3 (26:25)
And then the third thing, I think, is developing what a guy - I don't know if you've heard of Gary Vaynerchuk before, he's like a business entrepreneur, great guy, awesome content he puts out all the time.
And he has been talking a lot about this idea of kind candor. Which is basically being straight up and being honest. But not being mean, you know? And a lot of people struggle with being candid and being upfront and honest, because they don't want to upset people. No one likes to upset people. So they just avoid it. Or on the opposite end, they blurt it out and they're like aggressive and they're that like tyrannical manager, that's always, you know, sticking down on their team.
So you got to kind of combine those two, right? Be honest and straight up. If someone's doing something that, you know, you don't like, or is against company values, you need to get on that straight away. But drop the whole like Sandwich Technique thing, where they'll say something nice and then something ... but you know, just get straight to the point, but let them know that it's coming from a place of good intention.
You know, "I'm telling you this because I really value you as an employee. And I love the great work you did to on a day-to-day basis, but this one thing is really letting you down. So I want to work with you to fix it so that I can focus more on you being that great employee."
Blair Stevenson (27:51)
Yeah. So I was coming from the position of, "You know, my job here is to help you be the best you you can be". Brilliant. Fantastic. Thank you very much, Josh. Really appreciate all those tips.
Josh Krissansen (28:03)
Thank you for having me.
Blair Stevenson (28:05)
Well, that's all we've got time for today. And for listeners, you'll find the link to the show notes and the episode description below.
And if you'd like to connect with Josh on LinkedIn, you'll also find the link to his LinkedIn profile in the description too (https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-krissansen/).
Now, if you have tuned in today looking for a way to create and sustain a world-class coaching culture, so you can beat your targets without burning people out, have I got an offer for you!
You're welcome to a free copy of my book Game On: How to Increase Sales, Productivity, and Customer Experience by Turning Your Managers into High-Performance Coaches.
The link to that offer is also in the episode description below (https://bravatrak.com/game-on-book).
Well, that's it from us today. Have a productive week.