How to Increase Sales through Excellent Customer Service
With Phil Skingsley, MD at Sales Performance Improvement Strategies
Show Notes
Phil Skingsley is the MD at Sales Performance Improvement Strategies.
He was in the top 3% of salespeople for Xerox in the UK, transformed performance at American Express in New Zealand, and helped a major New Zealand bank achieve sales of between 200% and 300% of target.
Today, he shares how to increase sales through excellent customer service.
You'll Learn:
The 2 key ways to ensure your sales consultants create good customer outcomes (03:31).
The SPEND framework that Phil recommends consultants use to uncover customer needs (04:51).
An example of how a high-performing sales consultant delivered outstanding customer care (06:09).
The power of uncovering the impact which problems are having on customers, and how this approach turned a small speaker manufacturer into a global powerhouse (09:47).
How great selling is really just great customer service (13:09).
How opportunities to lift sales and achieve good customer outcomes may be sitting right in front of you (15:56).
What customers are really buying when they purchase from you. It’s probably not what you think (18:11).
An easy exercise you can do with your team, to lift their sales and belief in your products (19:15).
How a major retail chain increased extended warranty sales by just over 20%, nationwide (22:07).
The 2 magic words that need to be used in sales conversations (23:38).
The most important step to lifting sales, which comes straight out of the playbook of the All Blacks, the best rugby team in the world (24:08).
Connect with Phil on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philip-skingsley-9b1aaa22/
Transcript
Blair Stevenson (00:00)
Welcome to the Secrets to Contact Center Success podcast, connecting you with the latest and greatest tips from the best and the brightest minds in the industry.
I am Blair Stevenson, founder of BravaTrak. Our Sales Leadership System enables contact centres to increase revenue and achieve their sales growth targets.
Today I'm lucky enough to be joined by Phil Skingsley, who has an extensive track record at leading significant sales growth in two financial services companies. So, Phil, welcome along. Great to have you on the podcast.
Phil Skingsley (00:34)
Hi Blair. Good to be here.
Blair Stevenson (00:34)
Fantastic. As a starting point, tell us a bit about your background and your expertise.
Phil Skingsley (00:42)
Okay. I'll go back to my formative years in selling with Xerox in the UK, where I was able to achieve success and be in the top 3% of salespeople in the country for many years. And then moved on to sales management, managing two separate teams of sales people, which was great.
Then I emigrated to New Zealand and joined American Express as Director of Sales and Establishment Marketing. And that was a bit of a challenge because we had the 1987 crash. So we were obviously doing our best to keep our head above water.
And we did, and we made profits in the three or four years after that, and we did it through a sales team of basically door knocking. And it worked, because of the way we approached it, which was benefits driven.
I then joined a major New Zealand bank as a National Sales Manager, and launched a program called SUCCESS across the bank; Superior Unmatched Customer Care Equals Sales and Service. And it was a phenomenal success. Within months we had achieved results of between 200% and 300% of target. I mean, literally months, it was that successful.
I stayed with that, launching it across the bank and improving it until 1997, when I joined Roger Perry and we opened up the investment advisory service. We started with $100,000 seed capital. And when I eventually took early retirement in 2005, we'd built it to about $1.8 billion. So I've had some success in those areas, and now I'm happily retired in Phuket.
Blair Stevenson (02:34)
Fantastic. And for those people who are watching on LinkedIn, Phil's having some connection problems, which is why you can't see his video.
So, Phil, I know that you have this view of growing sales through superior customer care. And you mentioned some of the successes that you've had with it. And one of the things I'm aware of is that you believe that the key to success is addressing customer needs.
And these days in the financial services sector, the phrase is "creating good customer outcomes", but that's something you've been doing for a long time. So I'm just curious about the framework that you use, in terms of coaching your salespeople to make sure that they are addressing customer needs.
Phil Skingsley (03:31)
Yes. Good point. I think one of the things that comes to mind is rapport. Often overlooked, but I had a superb conversation with a bank agent the other day. And the rapport that was built on that conversation with me was superb, "Can I call you by your first name?", "How would you like to be called?" That sort of thing. "I notice you've been with us for X amount of years." So build rapport is one way to do it.
The second way is, remember that you're not there to sell anything, but to try and uncover needs. So, "How can I help you?", "What can I do for you today?" Those sorts of things. And then asking open questions. They are the key to everything, I believe, in selling. And that's open questions to gain information. And once you've asked them, is to understand the clues that come out of those open questions.
Blair Stevenson (04:32)
Cool. So let's explore that. What sort of framework do you keep in mind when you ask those questions? What's the process that you like people to follow in terms of uncovering the information they need to uncover during the conversation?
Phil Skingsley (04:51)
Good point. The SPIN program is well known, and probably one of the most famous. There is an offshoot of that called SPEND. I always used to get my folks to write it down, and I often did. Situation, Problem / Opportunity, Effect, Need, and Demonstration.
So I'd have that as a reference. It's a framework. It's a reference in front of me so that I could keep on track, number one. And number two, I knew when to jump from one to the other.
Having said that, it's only a framework. And there are times when you don't need to follow that 100% because a client or customer might say to you, "Well, I want one of these." And you're not going to start to ask, "Well, what's the effect going to be if you don't have it?" You don't have to, the customer wants it. The customer says "Yeah I want that." "Oh, okay."
So it's following a process, which I believe is great. And that process indicates to you when you should ask the open questions. And when they come out, study them for a few seconds, and think, "Is there a clue in there?" And I could give you a perfect example of one of those if you wanted.
Blair Stevenson (06:09)
That would be cool.
Phil Skingsley (06:09)
What, now? Okay. We had a superb personal banker up in Northland. If she's around, she'll recognise this, but an old gentlemen came in because he wanted to roll over one of his term deposits. And she got on good terms with him by all the things, she's a very personable person, and so was he.
So she rolled over the term investment, and she said - building rapport - she said, "So what are you doing now you're retired? What do you do with all your time?" He said, "Well, I go out fishing." "Oh, great", she said, "Where do you go?" He said, "Well, I and a mate, we got a little sailboat and we go out in the harbour and do a bit of fishing. But maybe that's going to come to an end soon."
And she said, "Oh, why is that?" And he said, "My friend's got bad knees and can't get about the boat much. So we might have to sell it and get a little runabout. That'll be a lot easier for him." So she said, "Oh, okay, that's good. Would you have any problems selling the boat?" He said, "No." She said, "So will you have enough money when you've sold it? What would be the outcome? What are you going to do?
He said, "Well, I think we can buy a little runabout." She said, "And would it be within your price range?" He said, "Yes." So these are closed questions here, of course. But she's affirming something. And she said, "So what are you going to do with the spare money you've got. Sailing boats are a lot more expensive than runabouts."
He said, "I don't really know." She said, "Well, I can help you there. Why don't you come along and see me when you've done the deal, and we'll invest your funds for you, or see what we can do for you."
So she gave him her card and she said, "Just to make sure, I'll follow up within a month and see how things are going." And this is a true story. And she gave him her card, he went, she got the funds, invested them about a month or two later. She phoned me up and she said, "I'm absolutely rapt about this. It worked!"
And that was building rapport. Sure there were a few closed questions in there, but open questions as well. But the rapport was such that he trusted her, and he came back and he invested the money.
Blair Stevenson (08:35)
And asking questions like, "What are you going to do with those funds once you've sold the boat?" Those are the sorts of questions which uncover opportunities.
Phil Skingsley (08:44)
Absolutely. It was right there in front of her when she said that, and she realised that there was an opportunity.
Blair Stevenson (08:54)
Totally agreed. Let's just go back to SPEND for a moment, just so I can recall. You should there are five types of questions. There's Situation questions, Problem questions, Effect questions, Needs questions, and then there's the Demonstration.
A question like "What are you going to do with the funds that you get?" would be a Situation question, but if you are thinking about those various levels of questions, in your experience, what are the most powerful? What are the ones that have the biggest impact on getting people to think about the situation they're in?
Phil Skingsley (09:47)
I think I understand where you're coming from. There are two in there. Well, obviously it's open questions, open questions, open questions.
But the effect - once a customer, a client understands that the effect that something is having on them or their business, is one thing. But being able to recognise it and admit it means that they've really said to you, "Something needs to change."
There are situations where a company won't realise that it has a problem. And a perfect example, a speaker manufacturer I went to years ago. I said, "So what problems do you have?" And he said, "We don't have any problems."
I said, "Oh, wow, great. And how many speakers do you manufacture?" Bowers & Wilkins, they were. He said, "Oh, X amount." I said, "It's not a huge amount." He said, "No, we have a process we follow. And we have to glue this part to that part. It has to go into an oven to cure. So that holds us up for two or three hours before we can handle it.”
I said, "What if I was able to show you an adhesive so that you could handle that magnet and its associated bits in 30 seconds." He said, "I've tried everything. I don't think it's possible." I said, "Well, if it is, would you go for it?" He said, "If it is, you're a lifesaver."
Well I did. And Bowers & Wilkins were able change their cottage industry speakers way back then into a major top class speaker manufacturer.
But he didn't realise the effect that having to cure those magnets was having. So there are people out there, even in financial services, who don't realise the effect. They have a problem, and don't realise the effect. So getting them to the effect, and recognise it, means they suddenly realise they've got a problem.
Blair Stevenson (11:54)
That makes perfect sense. And in terms of speaker manufacture, if you can take a three hour process and turn it into a three minute process, obviously you can create a whole lot more throughput.
Phil Skingsley (12:09)
Yeah, and they did, and they're big now. If you ever want to look ever look up B & W speakers, Bowers & Wilkins, that's the one that I visited on a cold call back in 1974.
Blair Stevenson (12:19)
And thanks to you, now they're multinational.
Phil Skingsley (12:21)
Well, they always were, but yeah.
Blair Stevenson (12:29)
One of the things that you've highlighted here is that these sorts of frameworks, like SPEND, work really well in face-to-face interactions. And to some extent, contact centres are a slightly different beast.
You've mentioned that often people if they're calling to purchase something, they already have in mind what they want, and what their need is. So sometimes it seems inappropriate to ask Effect questions. In that situation, what options do agents have?
Phil Skingsley (13:09)
Yes. I believe that the agents in this situation have the best opportunity, because the customer needs your help with something. So there's an immediate type of rapport there. Once the agent has been able to ascertain what the client wants, then you go on to open questions.
Again, a perfect example, a customer phoned who wanted a new Visa card, lost their Visa card. He said, "I've lost my Visa card. The problem is, we're going on holiday in 10 days time, and I'll need it to pay the bills. Can you help?"
The agent could've just said, "Yes, I'll give you a new Visa card." But what the agent did was to say, "Yes, we can do that. I can get most of the details over the phone, or we can get it couriered to your local branch. Whatever's more suitable for you."
And then - great - she said, "So you're going on holiday. Going anywhere nice and sunny?" He said, "Actually the Gold Coast, just to visit friends and have a break." She said, "What have you done about your foreign currency?" He said, "Well, I've been thinking about it, but haven't done anything yet."
(14:26)
She said, "Well, I can arrange that now. And so when you go to pick the card up at the branch tomorrow, your funds will be waiting for you, your foreign exchange will be waiting for you." He said, "Oh yeah, that'd be handy. That's a weight off my mind."
And then, fantastic, she just jumped in and said, "And of course you've arranged your travel insurance." Which he hadn't, "Well, I did think about it". She said, "Well, you should really, I believe it's a necessity for people traveling overseas. And we have a product that you should know about. I'll get the information to the personal banker tomorrow at your branch. They'll have your card and your foreign exchange, and probably sit down and discuss it with you. How does that sound?" He said, "Yes, that's great. Thank you very much."
(15:20)
Now there's a customer who just wanted a new card, and suddenly through asking questions, interacting, there were opportunities opened up. And I believe anyone that phones in, what we used to use in the bank was a Financial Needs Analysis Profile, which you say to somebody, "Now I've got you on the phone, Blair, we've done the credit card thing. Can I just go through a few other items we've got on your account? I noticed you don't have dah, dah, dah. There's a benefit to having this because dah, dah, dah."
Another thing, believe it or not, I have got two credit cards here. The reason being, if I lose one, I've got a backup. And I do a lot of my stuff online with a credit card. There's no harm in saying to the customer, "Well, would you like it back up credit card? The cost will be $40 a year, and you can have a small limit on it, but it will help you out in case of emergencies." "That would be good." See, there's so many areas you can get into by asking open questions and just testing.
Blair Stevenson (16:31)
Yeah. So I'd like to pursue this a bit more. The phrase I've often used is - you can use it both ways, actually - good selling is good service. Or good service is good selling.
And I think what you've shown there in terms of that lost credit card example is an example of that. That from an organisational perspective, it looks like they're selling, but actually that is also great service for a customer to be able to go, "Hey, I can get my replacement credit card. I just go to my local branch, get my replacement credit card. I can get my Australian cash to take with me on the trip. And I've got peace of mind that I've got my travel insurance covered as well."
Phil Skingsley (17:19)
Exactly. Yes. The customer thought it was excellent service. Never thought they were sold to.
Blair Stevenson (17:24)
And that's a great customer outcome. There's a focus on servicing the customer, and where appropriate, there are sales being made along the way.
Phil Skingsley (17:36)
Absolutely. Yes. You can't go by that.
Blair Stevenson (17:41)
So the other thing that really stands out to me based on those examples you've given is describing the benefit to the customer. For example, you talked about having a second credit card, and the peace of mind that gives you in terms of your card gets eaten or lost, you have a backup card. Particularly if you use credit cards a lot.
So I'm just curious about your take on how important linking the features to benefits is.
Phil Skingsley (18:11)
For me, that's major. All too often in the past, when I've sat in on coaching sessions and training sessions, people throw features at people. But the customers are only really interested in how it benefits them and their style and their way of life. You know, "Here's a credit card." "Oh yeah. What does it do for me?" "Well..."
Customers buy on benefits, not features, as a rule. Benefits are very important and they sway the conversation very often. They are ways to get the customer out of being sold to, to "Ah, that sounds like a good idea." And I'm a great believer in benefits. And knowing the benefits of what your products offer to a client - or could offer - is again, key to what I believe the Team Leaders and the Managers should be running little workshops on, every so often within their team.
Blair Stevenson (19:15)
Indeed. Last time we spoke, you talked about taking a benefits approach with an appointment setting contact centre, how that was able to quite substantially increase the number of appointments they made. Just by focusing on the benefits to the customer.
Phil Skingsley (19:34)
You've got a good memory.
Blair Stevenson (19:37)
Are you able to touch on that a little bit?
Phil Skingsley (19:39)
Yes, I can. It was an outbound call centre, and the object of the exercise for the agents was to get an appointment for a property advisor. But they weren't getting a lot of success. And it turned out that when I spoke to the agents, they didn't really know why they were doing it, other than, "You have a target, meet it." And that's it.
So I sat a team down to one side and said, "Well, what is it you're offering the customer." They said, "Well, we can't sell on the phone. We can only try and get an appointment." I said, "So you are selling an appointment." They said, "Yes." I said, "So what's the benefit of this person having an appointment?" And they said, "It's investing, and it's properties, and it's involved in property."
So I said, "What benefits would there be for a customer who invested in property" And they said, "Oh, well, I hadn't really thought about that." So we did a little white board thing. And they said, "It's funds for the future. It's growing your capital, potentially better than staying in the bank."
So I said, "Yes, but you can't say that to a client. That's selling financial advice. But out of that, get two or three benefits that you can speak to a customer about. For example, 'We can have an investment advisor come along and see you, they could show you how you could keep pace with inflation, and quite possibly get a better return from this property investment than you could from your bank. Would you be interested in speaking to the person?’"
No financial advice, but a benefit. What amazed me was once these people knew the benefits, it came over in their tone and their voice and their manner. There was a self-fulfilling prophecy type thing. They really did believe in what they were 'selling', and it came across. And I think that's one of the reasons why they were able to be a lot more successful. Does that sound feasible?
Blair Stevenson (22:07)
Yeah, it does. It actually reminds me, just because you've got such a large financial services background, it reminds me of some work I did a few years ago with a major retail chain. And over a period of about five months, we increased the sales of an extended warranty product by just over 20% nationwide.
And the key element in doing that was actually talking about the benefits of that extended warranty to a customer. So for example, let's imagine someone was buying a camera, the sales person might say, "An extended warranty for this camera is available for three years." Which is just a feature of it. Then they will continue and say, "Which means that you have complete peace of mind for two years over and above the manufacturer standard one year warranty."
So now they go, "I know I'm going to be covered for more than the standard warranty. I've got peace of mind for three years. I'd be interested to find out more." So that idea of making sure that whenever a feature is talked about, it's connected to a benefit, I think is incredibly important.
Phil Skingsley (23:38)
Exactly right. And I do remember there was a link, "which means". You mentioned it there. If ever you mention a feature, for example, and we all do, the link to the benefit is “which means”. Those two words, 'which means', and then you run onto a benefit. That's a very powerful link. So whenever anyone out there says, "Well, we've got this and this, which means..." As you said, and that is the key link.
Blair Stevenson (24:08)
Yep. Totally agreed. Absolutely. Okay, Phil, to wrap up, for contact centre leaders who want to increase revenue generation from their sales or service team, so sales teams might be increasing their conversion rate, for service teams it might mean increasing their cross selling, what would be your top three tips for them?
Phil Skingsley (24:30)
I could make a fortune on this one, Blair. Well in my experience, and as a world famous guru once said, "Fear is the price you pay for the unprepared mind and mouth." And you've mentioned on your podcast that there is a call reluctance, a sort of a fear.
And I believe in practicing. So my three tips would be practice, practice, role plays. And then more practice, more practice, more role plays.
I'll give you an example, the All Blacks, best rugby team in the world. They go out, they play a major match. And the next morning when they're on the training pitch, what are they doing? Just throwing a ball to one another. Hour after hour after hour. So they're back to basics, back to basics, back to basics.
For me, if you're a Team Leader, it’s practice and practice. Practice asking open questions with your team, so they understand what it is. Understand the benefits of the product or service that they're offering. And you can run a little workshop on that. "This is the product list, list the benefits to the customer, or potential benefits." And get them to write them down so they understand them.
And coaching and role-playing are of utmost importance to manage a team. You've got to get the team comfortable with overcoming objections and closing the sale, for example. And I think that's something you want to cover in another session we may have. But certainly, practice, practice, role-plays. Practice, practice, role plays.
Blair Stevenson (26:11)
Great tips. And I fully agree. And your point about professional sports is I think is really well made. That the reality is, professional sports teams practice the basics consistently. And, that's what we need to be doing in business as well.
Phil Skingsley (26:31)
Yeah, I agree. I agree.
Blair Stevenson (26:34)
Well, that's it from us today. For listeners, you'll find the link to the show notes in the episode description below.
And if you'd like to connect with Phil on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/philip-skingsley-9b1aaa22/), you'll also a link to his LinkedIn profile in the description too.
And, if you'd like to follow me on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevensonblair/), you'll find links to my profile there as well.
Phil, thank you so much for your time today. I Really appreciate it. And that's it for us today. Have a productive week.